Posted by: Winslie Gomez | 25/01/2008

Ban Islam? Really!

What happened to good old tolerance?

Surely, it is not dead!

Bit pushed for time, so – May I point to Daniel Pipes of the New York Sun, August 29, 2007

Non-Muslims occasionally raise the idea of banning the Koran, Islam, and Muslims. Examples this month include calls by a political leader in the Netherlands, Geert Wilders, to ban the Koran — which he compares to Hitler’s Mein Kampf — and two Australian politicians, Pauline Hanson and Paul Green, demanding a moratorium on Muslim immigration.
What is one to make of these initiatives? First, some history. Precedents exist from an earlier era, when intolerant Christian governments forced Muslims to convert, notably in 16th-century Spain, and others strongly encouraged conversions, especially of the elite, as in 16th- and 17th-century Russia. In modern times, however, with freedom of expression and religion established as basic human rights, efforts to protect against intolerance by banning the Koran, Islam, or Muslims have failed.

Read the rest for yourself and my advice would be, take your time and become acquainted with the various efforts throughout our human history to ban anything that does not sit confrotably with our value sytems.

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Responses

  1. Koran must be banned, as it is full of verses which shamelessly preach violence and intolerance against unbelievers. Just see a few of them here:

    8.39. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere…

    9.29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    These verses clearly give a universal goal for Muslims: Fight till Islam is established in the whole world.

    Such a fascist ideology can have no place in the modern civilized world. Hence, Koran and therefore Islam must be banned. The fact that it has not been banned in the past is no argument to prove that it should not be banned now.

    Apart from banning Koran and Islam, all Islamic countries must be boycotted totally by all democratic countries economically, politically, culturally and militarily. Let these violent Islamic countries die of starvation, disease and internal strife in isolation. Till Islam and Muslims are wiped out from this planet, there cannot be peace.

  2. Anand
    I understand your name means happiness!

    I normally say Thank you to anyone who comments and I must be honest that I had to do a lot of heart searching if I should approve your comment. However, I should Thank you for being honest and true to your own conviction, although I do not share your sentiments towards the religion and people of Islam.

    Any text taken out of CONTEXT can be made to say anything we want. Secondly, the interpreter of that text also brings his/her own understanding to the text.
    I am not learned in Muslim Scriptures and would hazard a guess that that the two quotes have a good and valid reason for being there.

    Thank you for posting your comment.

  3. Anand
    May I also suggest that to call a major world religion fascist, would mean that all these people (more that 1.5 BILLION) are either mindless or part of the problem, you call fascism.

    Fascism = “a governmental system having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racist”
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism

    Somehow that description would sit quite comfortably with quite a few nations in our world.

    The use of the word “fascist” is deliberately emotive and I do believe most people would shy away from such language.

    We need dialogue between all kinds of beliefs and there is no point in any banning because history has shown that it only drives it underground for it to resurface in another guise.

  4. I have read the whole Quran and Hadith several times. I am amazed when you say:

    “Any text taken out of CONTEXT can be made to say anything we want. Secondly, the interpreter of that text also brings his/her own understanding to the text.

    I am not learned in Muslim Scriptures and would hazard a guess that that the two quotes have a good and valid reason for being there.”
    First of all, “if you are not learned in Muslim scriptures”, you have no authority to proclaim that “the two quotes have a good and valid reason for being there.” It is unfortunate that you are hazarding a guess on such an important issue when you yourself admit that you are not learned in Muslim scriptures.
    I would be grateful if you could explain those “good and valid reasons” for the 2 verses for being there.
    Islam is fascist, because it brooks no criticism against itself and sanctions killing of any person who dares to criticise Islam. Do you not know that if a Muslim wants to leave Islam, he is officially punishable and actually punished by death sentence according to Sharia? No other religion does this to his follower. Is this not an enough proof that Islam is fascist?
    The number of followers of a creed does not prove its truthfulness.
    It is futile to have a dialogue with a religion which proclaims that it has the final revelations of God.
    So, please be realistic!
    Anand

  5. Anand
    As you have learned the “whole Quran and Hadith several times”
    Why don’t you enlighten the unlearned with the context of your quotes?

  6. Anand
    I must agree with your last statement “It is futile to have a dialogue with a religion which proclaims that it has the final revelations of God”.

    I am however hopeful that common sense would prevail over the shouts of the zealot.

    I also believe that if our words are spoken in kindness then our fellow human will respond accordingly, despite any religious or cultish brainwashing.

    I sense your fervour and my only request is that we should not despise another for his/her belief system.

    Thank you for your comment.

  7. How I wish people would do their research! I just wanted to out this here so that people will know that Islam isn’t intolerant- people are. This is related to women- perhaps the volatile topic. Here you go:

    Women and the Quran

    • The Quran is not an inherently patriarchal text. Because Muslim societies have historically been highly misogynist, patriarchy has been read into the Quran. The Quran has been interpreted with prejudices against women since the those interpretations focus on the male as norm without substantial support or evidence. The Quran needs to be constantly reinterpreted depending on the context it is being applied in, so that it can maintain universality. The overall message of the Quran emphasises justice and egalitarianism.
    • According to the Quran, men and women are created equal, but have different functions and roles in society. This is because the Quran recognizes differences in gender; however, it does not advocate essentialist roles. Furthermore, the Quran recognizes the cultural differences between men and women’s work, but does place any judgements on them.
    • Creation:
    1. The creation of humans is not expressed in terms of gender. The Quran does not state that Adam was created first; the language is generic. Similarly it does not state that Eve was the second person since the Arabic equivalent is ‘spouse.’ Therefore, it could be male or female.
    2. Humans were created as caretakers for Earth, not heaven.
    3. Unlike the Biblical account of creation, Eve is not blamed for disobeying Allah.
    4. At creation, male and female were not defined. The only thing that is stated is that women bear children due to biology. Men and women are seen as equal partners.
    • Paradise:
    1. Descriptions of Paradise were meant to appeal to the patriarchs of Arabia in order to encourage them to join the religion. The early verses (Makkah) do indeed promise huris, who are beautiful virgins, as rewards in heaven.
    2. However the later verses (after migration to Madina) switch to the generic and state that everyone will be rewarded with companionship.
    3. The real and true purposes of paradise are peace, transcendence from Earth, and most importantly, Allah’s company. This is possible for both genders.
    • Veiling:
    1. Veiling is not prescribed for all women in the Quran. It was advocated for Muhammad’s wives.
    2. Modesty is urged for both men and women.
    • Inheritance:
    1. The Quran ensures women inherit equitably and gives women the right to property.
    2. The ‘one third the share of the males for the females’ formula is a suggestion, not a prescription.

    • Divorce:
    1. Men have the right to vocally divorce women. Women can not initiate divorce without an arbitrator.
    2. Emphasis is on equitable reconciliation or separation.
    3. A couple can only divorce each other twice (thus limiting constant remarriage).
    • The Quran banned practices that have severe ramifications for women such as female infanticide, the sexual abuse of female slaves, denying women property and inheritance. It also restricted others such as polygamy.
    • The Quranic verse on polygamy restricts the number of wives a man can have to four. However, one condition for polygamy is equal treatment, and many argue that since this is not possible, polygamy is not realistically possible.
    • While women’s responsibility is child bearing, men’s responsibility is to provide economic stability. Although women are identified as child bearers, nurturing is not assumed to be essentialist to mothers.
    • The Quran does not emphasise men as more ‘natural’ or ‘capable’ rulers. Bilquis, the Queen of Sheba, is the only ruler who is talked about favourably.
    • Although no women are identified as prophets in the Quran (again, in terms of context, it would have been almost impossible for a female to succeed in highly patriarchal societies), many are talked about. Additionally, some are identified as having received wahy or divine revelation, such as Mary and Moses’ mother.

    As for jihad- it means inner struggle. It means struggling to perfect one’s life. It is meant to help one self-reflect. It has been taken out of context and is used to promote a culture of violence.

    I truly hope that this will enlighten the few of you out there who have fallen prey to blatant propaganda about Islam.

  8. Nabiha
    I am delighted to read your comment and thank you for giving a glimpse into your religion.
    “Islam isn’t intolerant- people are.”
    That is an extremely important point and one that can be applied universally to any religion or belief.

    People are the problem and we need to learn to appreciate each other.

  9. To say that jihad is only an “inner struggle” is to show complete ignorance of Quran, Hadith and the violent history of Islam.

    Just read the following verses of Quran and Hadith:

    8.39. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere…

    9.29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    8.12. Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite you above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
    8.60 – “Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies”; …
    9.52 – Say: “Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)? But we can expect for you either that Allah will send his punishment from Himself, or by our hands….”
    9.111- “Allah has purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain….”

    Hadith 1:24
    Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
    Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle,….

    These verses clearly give a universal goal for Muslims: Fight till Islam is established in the whole world.
    Take a hard look on all the verses quoted above once again. You would notice that there is a clear reference to physical fight with persons (not vices or ideas) such as fighting “them”, slaying of “pagans”, being harsh against “unbelievers” and “Hypocrites”, humiliating “unbelievers” whose abode is “hell”, and so on. In fact, Hadith 1.125 clearly defines fighting in Allah’s cause as fighting to establish supremacy of Islam in the world. Hadith 3.531 states Muhammad’s fiat to impose tax amounting to 50% of the income of Jews of Khaibar to humiliate them or press them to convert into Islam. By no stretch of imagination, these barbarous acts of Muhammad can be explained away as “inner” or ideological struggles.

    The violence intended by Islam is proved beyond doubt by the letter written by none other than Muhammad himself addressed to non-Muslim Julanda brothers of Oman:
    “Peace be upon the one who follows the right path! I call you to Islam. Accept my call, and you shall be unharmed. I am God’s Messenger to mankind, and the word shall be carried out upon the miscreants. If, therefore, you recognize Islam, I shall bestow power upon you. But if you refuse to accept Islam, your power shall vanish, my horses shall camp on the expanse of your territory and my prophecy shall prevail in your kingdom.”
    Just see the threatening tone of Muhammad’s letter where he is trying to impose Islam by force.

    If Islamic fighting was only defensive or against local aggressors, how come followers of Muhammad had to attack all their neighboring countries and impose Islam on them?
    It is due to this reason that 99% of terrorists of the world are Muslims, while they constitute only 20% of world population.

    Those who are trying to prove that Islam is a peaceful religion should prove it with reference to actual Quranic verses, not just in their imagination. And they must explain how the violent verses mean “peace” and “inner struggle”.

    As to women, Quran openly and shamelessly treats women as inferior in every respect and sanctions veiling, subjugating, enslaving and beating them. Just read the following verses of Quran:

    # Have sex with your women whenever and as often as you like. 2:223

    # Women have rights that are similar to men, but men are “a degree above them.” 2:228

    # A woman is worth one-half a man. 2:282

    # Marry of the women two, or three, or four. 4:3

    # Males are to inherit twice that of females. 4:11

    # Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death. 4:15

    # “All married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.”
    You can’t have sex with married women, unless they are slaves obtained in war (with whom you may rape or do whatever you like). 4:24

    # Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Refuse to have sex with women from whom you fear rebellion, and scourge them. 4:34

    # Don’t pray if you are drunk, dirty, or have touched a woman lately. 4:43

    # Women are feeble and are unable to devise a plan. 4:98

    # “Unto the male is the equivalent share of two females.” 4:176

    A husband can accuse his wife of adultery with only one witness. 24:6

    Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 24:31

    Allah says it is lawful for Muhammad to marry any women he wants. 33:50-51

    Women must cover themselves when in public. 33:59

    (Al-Hadis, Vol. 3, p. 137) Abu Sayeed al-Khodri reported that Mohammed was talking to a group of women when he said, “… I see the majority of you will go to Hell.” The women asked why, to which Mohammed responded, “You often curse and are ungrateful to your companions.” He then told them they had a basic defect in their nature, to which they responded, “How?” Mohammed answered, “Is not the attestation (knowledge and witness) of a women only worth half of a man’s? And that is on account of her short intelligence.”

    (Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 215) Omar reported from the Holy Prophet who said, “No man shall be questioned for beating his wife.”
    This is the “human” treatment of women in Islam!!!

    — Anand

  10. Who are we to ban a religion cuz some people don’t like what it says.
    Are we to ban government too. cuz they perpetuate wars and kill people in reality not just words.

  11. Anand
    I accept your comment but does it not refer to a time when these thoughts were acceptable?

    I know that your argument is that there are those within the Muslim community who would adhere to every word.

  12. Damien
    Thank you. My point exactly, none of us has the right!

  13. I will not refute that these verses exist. Neither am I going to defend them. However, only the extremists use them and quote them. Religious Muslims are peace loving. The verse that overrides all this is: “there is not compulsion in religion.” Sufism, which is the Islam that was originally spread in the sub-continent, is very secular and tolerant. And Islam is different in every region. Here’s something that might provide some insight: http://nabihameher.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/delusional-punjabis/
    It’s about history and politics, but it deals with how Islam was influenced by culture in Pakistan.

  14. Sorry the above verse should read “There is NO compulsion in religion” NOT “there is NOT compulsion in religion.”

  15. Nabiha
    Thank you for that link.
    It is vitally important that people understand. everything has a beginning. History should be our tutor.

  16. Salaam! Hare Krishna!

    Anand! as Winslie has pointed out, your name is Sanskrit for Bliss, the paramount of Happiness! There are Over a Billion Followers of Islam in this world, do you honestly believed that by ignoring them and letting them suffer and die would Bring world peace? I would Rather think it would start a revolution with not only every Muslim on the planet but also every favorable person as well.

    So world peace can not be attained through torture or neglect of humanity, but it can be obtained through humanity itself, Kindness kills greater demons then cruelty gives birth too.

    As Winslie said, “Any text taken out of CONTEXT can be made to say anything we want. Secondly, the interpreter of that text also brings his/her own understanding to the text.”

    However I have Read Thoroughly the Scriptures of the world therefore i feel it safe to comment on the verses you have quoted, but before i do that, i can also warn you that whatever religion you are in i will be able to take quotes from any scripture of the world and it can therefore be deemed as evil! However you and i will both know it is not so!

    The verses of the Quran that you have quoted however do not mean in the violent context that you present them.

    Allah refers to God or the Almighty, the disbelievers refer to those who disbelieve or go against god, the “fight” is the fight not against the people, and not a physical aspect either, it refers to a fight against evil, against oppression, against satan, and against all that is ungodly. it is the fight for justice, it is the fight for the religion of “truth” not necesarily refering to islam, but to the general truth of god.

    If you want to know the True Hidden Treasures of islam, visit my site where i have dedicated several chapters to removing the dark mask mankind has painted of Islam, it is even Downloadable as a PDF

    http://gopalkeerty.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/the-hidden-treasures-of-islam-content/

    after taking your time in reading this, which is based on the Holy Quran, and if you still share those same feelings towards Islam, I am willing to Soundly, and Philosophically Refute those claims, GopalaGuru@gmail.com

    Yours in the service of the lord,
    Gopala Guru

    Salaam, Hare Krishna!

  17. Gopala
    For a young man you speak wise words!
    Especially liked the quote “Kindness kills greater demons then cruelty gives birth to”
    Thanks for dropping by.

  18. Banning Islam will offcourse never happen. in the Netherlands Wilders is considered a nutter. He’s only out to get media-attention.
    The recent scam about ”covering” in the dutch media was about full-face-cover. And the necessity for official people like the police to be able to identify people. The Q’uran doesn’t require women to cover their faces, whatever the interpretation some people might put on it.

    And here we come to the point that the Quran is interpreted in very different ways, by different people, religious leaders, and governments. And some hold the Hadiths as sacred as the Q’uran, and others not.
    There are as many different muslims about as christians. Muslims are not one single personality. Such a generalisation is not tenable.

  19. @ Nabiha-:
    ” The Quran is not an inherently patriarchal text. Because Muslim societies have historically been highly misogynist, patriarchy has been read into the Quran.”
    &
    “Men have the right to vocally divorce women. Women can not initiate divorce without an arbitrator.”

    lol.

    Nabiha. Thats patriarchial.

  20. “Do you not know that if a Muslim wants to leave Islam, he is officially punishable and actually punished by death sentence according to Sharia? No other religion does this to his follower. Is this not an enough proof that Islam is fascist?

    It is not what happened in my country,Indonesia and many other islamic countries. There is no such thing happened as you said.

    “Apart from banning Koran and Islam, all Islamic countries must be boycotted totally by all democratic countries economically, politically, culturally and militarily. Let these violent Islamic countries die of starvation, disease and internal strife in isolation. Till Islam and Muslims are wiped out from this planet, there cannot be peace.”

    You are included those who are violent and sadistic with those words. We should ban you too. 😀

    Thank you Winslie Gomez for giving me a chance to comment.

  21. Rayon
    Discourse and a calm spirit appear to be difficult pairing.

    You comment is welcome.
    Thanks for the smile too, I need to learn how to do that!

  22. You type : ) only next to each other. A sad one is : ( and a wink is ; )

    Adnan, the quoted hadith about the prophet telling the women they will all go to hell, is by Abu Harayrah, and I think it is a lie from front to end.
    He was reprimanded for transmitting traditions wrongly by Aïscha, and Omar ibn Khattab who even threatened to exile him.
    Islam is more complicated than it seems at first glance. And it doesn’t do to condemn, unless you really know what you’re talking about.

  23. Oh, I messed it up. the one about women being Fitnah is Bukhari, anyway it clashes, and I think there is something wrong with it.

  24. @Anand
    /Islam is fascist, because it brooks no criticism against itself and sanctions killing of any person who dares to criticise Islam. Do you not know that if a Muslim wants to leave Islam, he is officially punishable and actually punished by death sentence according to Sharia? /

    I missed this first time I read the comments. Dude, it seems you’ve been reading someone like Ali Sina and his ilk. There are many strands of Islam. “Islam is fascist” is an absurd generalization. Surely you’ve heard of Sufism?

    /No other religion does this to his follower. Is this not an enough proof that Islam is fascist?/

    How about this gem =:
    Deuteronomy
    Chapter 13
    KJV
    If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/Deu/Deu013.html

    😀

  25. Aafke
    Thanks 🙂
    I won’t do the wink or it could be misunderstood and off-post.

    Thanks also for correcting your own comment, because it shows a level of maturity to admit your mistakes in public. I wouldn’t know of course but others probably do.
    Like the horse too.

  26. PA (Prophet Ali makes me very nervous, hope you don’t mind)
    Personally I think the “fascist” label is deliberately baiting and emotive.
    In the end we deal with interpretations.

    The King James Version was my favourite because it’s like reading Chaucer.

    In Exegesis we would look for the spirit of the text rather than the literal understanding.

    You rightly point that the admonition is death and nothing short of a painful one.
    Great for the reader to have instant references.

  27. Translation is another thing! The first english translators were given a fairly limited english dictionary to use for the first translation because they wanted to make the bible really accessible, but that made it much more difficult to translate.

    Winslie: I’d rather admit a mistake than leaving it, seems even more stupid. And I still have a lot to learn.

  28. Aafke
    Thanks for that lesson on the smiley face, wow it works! I’m chuffed.
    Translation is seriously important, because it locks the text in the subjective time of the translator.
    Therefore literal interpretation as “Word of God” is impossible to sustain.

  29. This is for “Prophet Ali”:

    While I appreciate your criticism, and I will not refute your claims about patriarchy, I would just like to say that bashing a religion isn’t open mindedness. I understand where you’re coming from. I too think that despite the interpretations, Islam is by and large patriarchal. But, over the past few years, I have stopped bashing and started to understand that no matter what, religion is vital to most people. No matter what, I often need to explain things from the “liberal Muslim” point of view while consciousness raising. And there’s nothing with that, especially since it helps my cause.

    Secondly, the truth is that the vast majority of Muslims are religious, but not crazy psycho terrorists. I, for one, refuse to slot everyone as intolerant. Are many Muslims such as Wahabis intolerant? Hell, yes. But they do not represent the vast majority of the Muslim population. Telling people that they’re ignorant etc. is counter-productive.

    And lastly, I know that Islam can be a progressive, like any other religion, since my very progressive ancestors were Muslims or Hindu converts. Sufi Islam, which preaches that God is love, is by and large secular since it doesn’t preach conversion. It wins hearts and minds through it’s peaceful and egalitarian teachings. I’m not a pious Muslim, nor do I believe in letting any religion control me or my thoughts. However, I see the desperate need people have for religion in a country like mine- Pakistan. If it makes them the people that I love and respect, then I will give the religion the benefit of the doubt.

    I’m not trying to start an argument here; I am just adding my two cents. I do respect your opinion Ali and I do agree with what you are saying in terms of patriarchy and intolerance about leaving the religion. I don’t agree with certain verses at all, but, again, I do not let them deter me from appreciating the positives of religion. It’s not black and white. It’s just not.

  30. Ban Islam? Really! What happened to good old tolerance?
    Off course ban Islam. It is not a religion, it is a mix between cult and a psycho socio-politic ideological system.
    All religions preach in two words LOVE and GROWTH.
    Go analyse all religions whether it has a: one god-human/material-spiritual (or psychological) duality. whether it has more than one god or whether it has none, or mother nature as god or reason as god or the subconscious mid as god. It doesn’t matter.
    What really matters is that all these belief systems preach love as the main recipee for human growth.
    That can’t be said about Islam.
    Actually Islam is more like Nazism than anything else.
    Therefore, YES! ban Islam not for the sake of the west but for the sake of humanity.
    Ban Nazism? Really! What happened to good old tolerance?

  31. There’s no such thing as moderate Islam or moderate muslims.
    Thera are muslims who follow Islam and muslims who don’t.
    It is written in the Quran that it was transmitted by Allah through Angel Gabriel to Mohammed (WBUH). Therefore it can’t be reformed.
    All reasonable people know that Islam preaches hatred, discrimination and treats it’s women like rats with skin cancer and HIV positive.
    The majority of muslims or either never read the Quran or the Hadith by themseves in private in an environment without the muslim bias around them (family and preachers), or they did partially because they’re afraid to know that the truth that lies ahead doesn’t match the inner sense of humanity that lies within every person, that tells them this is wrong, this is unacceptable, it’s not what a religion should be like.
    So they don’t know the whole truth only what they want to be truth they fear to turn the next page because they know the monster hides around the corner.
    these muslims always point to “peaceful” passages in the Qu’ran. What about the non-peaceful directives from Allah? The earlier peaceful revelations of Muhammad to pray, give to the poor, etc. were established when he had no political or military power. After he became the most powerful man in Arabia, the revelations changed. These later ones superceeded or trumped the earlier ones; the earlier ones were replaced. (Known as the principal of Nasikh.) And it is these later ones that are the violent directives of Allah to slay the infidels everywhere. Here is Surah 9:29 “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    Many of these muslims Know what i’m talking about but only subconsciously so they linger in this state of denial, they fear that these feelings may just pop up anytime and leave them naked and unarmed in a wild jungle with the most dangerous animals and monsters of their worst nightmares:
    The truth… …the truth that all their lives they lived under a delusion.

  32. Delvecchio
    It saddens me to read your words.

    I have allowed your comment mainly because I believe in freedom of expression. But incitement to hatred should be never allowed. I don’t believe you are trying to sell hate, and you are entitled to your opinion.

    we need dialogue on all sides to the find those elements we find uncomfortable with one-another.

    All extreme views have a habit of exaggerating one easy view while disguising another.

    I am more intrigued as to why you are so filled with anger?

  33. Delvecchio
    I should answer your questions.

    All religions do have personal spiritual development, including Islam. Just the HOW that differs.

    30:21 And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love [mawadda] and mercy between your [hearts]: Verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.

    The nazi comparison is purely emotive.

    Do you feel the need to be derogatory?

  34. Delvecchio,

    I’m very insulted to be called a rat. The people around me- my family and friends, who are all Muslim- treat me with love and respect and do not ever make me feel that they are being sexist towards me. I would be the first to call foul if they did anything against human rights. Your words prove to me how deeply rooted intolerance is. How much propaganda instils fear and ignorance is really sad. You call us uneducated, yet you certainly don’t know much about the religion. Please go meet a real Muslim and get that stereotype out of your head. Please. For the sake of humanity.

  35. Delvecchio
    The ill-treatment and abuse of women is not somehow exclusive to Islam. Rather it is widespread throughout vast expanses of our globe.

    Christians abuse women too.

    “All reasonable people know that Islam preaches hatred, discrimination and treats it’s women like rats with skin cancer and HIV positive.”

    Please don’t be so bitter, it cannot be good for your health.
    http://bitterheart.org/

  36. Since Islam is in a state of WAR against all other countries as per their ideology, Since Saudi Arabia doesn’t allow any Churches, Synagogues , Temples, other than their Mosques.
    Here is an International BAN ISLAM petition , for presentation to the WORLD COURT, for Humanitarian Rulings.

    http://www.petitiononline.com/MYSTIC/petition.html

    I further suggest we should work at shutting down their Mosques, which are indoctrinating 5th column activities against our Democratic countries.

  37. Lorenzo
    I appreciate the passion for this subject and would suggest that KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) is udergoing a reform by considering allowing a Church to be built.

    If there are those who wish to support you and as much as I would disagrre or agree partially, I am not going to stop you being able to express your self.

    If it is to be presented to a genuine court, so be it and the right way to go about it.
    Thank you.


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